Book Club Discussion – The Visual Sale with Author Tyler Lessard

Paula Williams: So we’re going to have a lot of fun.

Tyler Lessard: Perfect.

Paula: Fantastic. So just to let you know a little bit about our group and you know, what’s kind of weird about us as people is that, we are all in marketing, and we’re all in sales and marketing for the aviation industry. So that could be anything from plane[?] schools, parts manufacturers, schedulers, dispatchers, people who handle records, Insurance lawyers…

John Williams: Light bulbs, tires, brakes, whatever.

Tyler: Yup.

Paula: Butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers, but all in the aviation industry.

Tyler: Yeah.

Paula: So it’s a pretty wide variety of people and they’re almost all B2B. So we try to pick books that focus on that side of things rather than retail. And one of the things that I loved about this and the first thing I’m going to even mention about this is that a lot of our clients, one of the issues that we have when we start working with a client is that they have been taught if they’ve have any kind of formal education and marketing, it’s all about retail and then they kind of jump to the conclusion that, oh, well, you know, video and social media and all that stuff is for retail, that’s not for business to business. I need to be doing product sheets, and trade shows and magazines. And that’s what I need to be focused on those three things and nothing else.

Have you run into that when you work with business to business companies?

Tyler: Somewhat, yes. I mean, most of our pretty much all of the base that we work with are folks that are in business to business. And but it’s interesting within the spectrum of B2B right things are very different industry to industry. Originally, we worked a lot with companies in software and high-tech and they tend to be much more technology-forward. And they’ve kind of grown up now on marketing automation systems and a little more sophistication. And for a lot of them, it’s like, “Okay, I get it. How do I build this into my programs?” But then certainly, as we move into some of these other industries, very much what you spoke to of like, “Oh, yeah, most of what we do today is trade shows and events.” And yeah, like you said, things like product brochures and we’re not responsible for this over here and nowadays, if a marketer says, we’re not responsible for that, they’re probably wrong. So much of the buying process that we can be, I think, a part of now. So it’s really interesting and it differs industry to industry within B2B as well to see kind of where people are coming from and what experiences they’ve had so…

Paula: Yeah. Absolutely. That’s so funny. And I guess, you know, we actually started with introductions before you got on but, you know, we did want to give you the opportunity to introduce yourself before we just jump in and start asking you questions. But anyway, I’m Paula Williams. We run ABCI which is an aviation marketing firm and we work with those kinds of folks. John Williams, you want to go next?

John: Yeah, John Williams. I do all the high-tech stuff and the CFO stuff and I’ve got to take a call.

Paula: Oh, gosh. Okay.

John: I’m going to be right back.

Paula: Okay, cool. And Tyler, I know you rent Vidyard, I’ve done a little bit of investigating of your company. Tell us a little bit about Vidyard.

Tyler: Yeah. So I’ve been here at Vidyard for just over eight years now. I think it is. Yeah, since early 2014, I joined and it’s been a really interesting ride because Vidyard is a, you know, we started off as a video hosting and management technology for businesses, and shortly before I joined, you know, there were co-founders, there was a small team before I joined and they had originally started with a real focus on actually video production agencies and helping video production agencies have better tools for hosting and managing the videos they were giving to clients with more analytics to be able to track like how well those videos were performing. And you know what they ended up realizing was the agencies themselves weren’t, well, they weren’t really equipped to refer and actually leverage the software technology very well. They were still very much, you know, produce the content for a client and get out of the way.

But those downstream businesses, which were largely B2B companies at the time that they were working with, we found it had a huge need, they were doing more and more video content but were really just using YouTube as a way to host that content. And there was a big disconnect with any other content they were making. Like when they were making brochures and ebooks and at that time, writing blog posts and things like that. They would never think of posting those on some third party platform, right? They had tools to host them and to be able to track how they were working and things like that. So videos were kind of this very separate silo for most companies still at that time. And so we recognize an opportunity to solve for that knowing that video was going to become more and more important as part of the marketing function and so we really built the tools with that mindset of like, you know, and really with B2B organizations as our primary audience and thinking through in, in B2B, when you’re using video content, yeah, it might be for promotion and advertising, but more and more, it’s about education. It’s about educating your market. Answering their questions and showing them rather than telling them. And all these great things we talk about in the book and we realize that they need better tools to manage that.

So we really built the platform for that use case of hosting, publishing, customizing, and tracking the analytics behind those videos that marketing teams were using. And over the years, I got a chance just to really immerse myself in that world to work with so many different marketing teams and businesses on not only their use of Vidyard but that of course dovetailed into their overall video content strategy because to your point, many of them weren’t doing a lot of video yet and they were kind of like, “Okay, we know we should do it. Let’s get a tool, like Vidyard to underpin it but then, we’ve got to really expand our mind about how we might use video.” So a lot of opportunity then to work with companies on that and get a sense for where they wanted to go with it, where they were seeing success. And so it’s been a really, really exciting number of years. I’ve learned obviously a ton and a lot of that I tried to pour into the book as these are just all things I had a chance to get to exposed to so…

Paula: Right.

John: It seems to me, what you are espousing and what your book probably says, and I put it all together is that regardless of your core competency, we were just talking about this. One of them needs to be education.

Tyler: Oh, yeah.

John: Regardless of what you’re selling?

Tyler: Yeah. I mean, no question. Like I mean, industries at large, you know, marketing and selling has been moving and needs to keep moving further and further into helping, into educating, into being a real trucks[?] that advisor. And you know, these are things that I mean, businesses and sales people have done for years. But in this world where it’s very much digital first for our buyers, marketers need to take more of that on because most of the research, most of the evaluation is all happening before they ever talked to a salesperson. It’s happening online. It’s happening on your website, it’s happening or they’re asking you, “Can you just send me something that I can look at in my own time?” So we, as marketers, have this much bigger role to play in the buying cycle, and educating and answering those questions is a big part of it. We can’t rely on sales to be answering those anymore because customers wanted in content now [inaudible] deliver on.

Paula: And they wanted it 4:00 in the morning, you know. And we’re all working internationally and everything else so…

Tyler: Whenever, on-demand, self-service, no friction, right? They have high expectations now and if it’s not there for them, they’ll find it from somebody else.

Paula: Right.

John: Yeah. You can see[?] the sales guy, right? It’s just at the tail end of the entire process to take the money.

Tyler: Yeah. It’s still a little bit more than just taking the money but they’re always definitely [inaudible].

Paula: Yeah, exactly. Glad you’re joining us, Ali. Speaking of, you know, across the globe, we’ve got Ali here from Pakistan who’s joining us in the middle of the night. So, you know, videos really good for communicating in this way. And I think that’s a wonderful thing. Let me just tell a real quick story about when we first started working with a charter company, actually a charter and FBO here in the United States, ten years ago, right? Getting a video done was such a project, you know, we hired a video company. We storyboarded all of the videos, they wanted precise script for everyone. They rehearse them. It sounded so stiff. And so, you know, I mean, it was just such a painful process and we came out of it with a beautiful promotional video and it was like 2 minutes long and it cost tens of thousands of dollars because they had people show up with a truck and with lights and they took pictures of their airplanes and did all these wonderful things. Video does not have to be that painful especially now and I think this is one of the reasons I was so excited to send this to everybody on our client list because a lot of them are still in that mindset of if I’m going to do a video, it’s going to be a hellacious process.

Tyler: Yeah.

John: Well, on top of that, most of the– What? The iPhone 6 or 7 or so, and later has got the camera that’s way good enough, audio capture is way good enough and all you got to do, stick it in my movie and smooth it out and you’re good.

Paula: Right.

Tyler: Yeah. Well, the people’s expectations have changed as well. Right? In many cases, you see content that is you know, recorded or even just feels more like it’s recorded and like it was shot on an iPhone, it’s very candid. It doesn’t feel like it’s overly produced and polished, gives people a greater sense of transparency and authenticity and it seems like that’s really working better and better these days, you know, particularly with younger generations. But I think it moves right up and so there’s also that dynamic of what people are expecting and resonating with. It keeps changing and in some cases, there’s almost like this production dilemma where you, it’s almost like the more you spend, the less it [crosstalk] ends up resonating with people because it looks [crosstalk].

Paula: Because it looks slick and corporate and untrustworthy.

Tyler: Yeah, they’re like… [crosstalk]

John: [inaudible] car sales guy, right? Except it’s not hours. It’s a product.

Tyler: Yeah. Well, the interesting thing too, is we, you know, obviously, I talked a lot about in the book is that there is still absolutely a time and place for really well-produced videos, great storytelling, and things that bring these things together. But you know, sometimes people will say, we’ll have that perception of like, “Oh my goodness, to do a video, it’s really expensive and it’s going to be a big project.” But that’s typically because number one, again, they may not know what actually goes into it these days because it has come down but they may also be making that assumption that, oh, when I think of making a video, I equate it to that B equals this really big produced commercial kind of thing, right? As opposed to, well, wait a minute, what if I were to tell you, we’re going to make a video that just shows how one of our customers uses it, right? And then you go, “Okay, well, that would probably cost a little bit less.” And you’re like, “Well, what if I were to say, we could just go over there with an iPhone and like have a really natural conversation, see it in action and it’s not something that’s going to go on the front page of our website, it’s something that’s going to be used here and over here.” And then you go, “Oh yeah, that makes sense.”

And by the way, we can do that for next to nothing, it’s really just a human capital. So when you start to expand your mind on these rules that video can play, it might be something you only use once or twice just like, you know, a short written piece of content but those things could be done quick and easy. And you have to use it in different ways.

John: Yeah, but the expense is almost zip so it was worth it.

Paula: Yeah.

Tyler: Yeah, and it could end up something that goes up on the home page of your site because the content value is so good, right? The content value is what matters more so than the production value. And that’s where often the best people who are the best with using video, again, aren’t necessarily the ones who have the best producers so to speak. It’s the one who are the best storytellers, the best editors, right? Those people that know how to like capture a message, tell a story, but cut it and edit it in a way that’s quick and respectful of the audience’s time and keeps their interest. And you know, those are the things that become more important. And again, you’re not putting the money into the cameras, you’re putting the money into, well, it’s really the people, the human capital of folks who know how to tell a good story or how to make a good piece of content. So, yeah, that’s the bigger thing I’m seeing.

Paula: Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Another thing that I, and honestly I’m not sure if it was in this book because this week I’m also doing a course with Bill Caskey, you know, the events like podcast and it’s mixed up in my head. So forgive me if this was not a thing in the book, but it is a very important point and that is there was a statistic that they threw out that just stuck in my head and it was that a company and it was a business to business company did a study on their buying customers and the people that actually had made a purchase had consumed 40-something minutes. I think 43 minutes of video before they made the purchase. Was that from this book? Is that…

Tyler: Yeah. There are some good examples of that.

Paula: And that just blew me away because you know, you think of short videos, everybody you’re saying you know, make it 3 minutes or less or nobody’s going to watch it. But I think especially with some of the more expensive, more technical, more complex purchases, it takes a lot more content to get them to the point of purchase.

Tyler: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Like if you think about, I often like challenge people to sort of answer the question, could one of your prospective buyers, and I’m not saying you want them to do this but let’s just like, say hypothetically, if they wanted to go through their buying process entirely on their own, entirely asynchronously on demand. If they said, “I don’t want to talk to a sales person, I don’t want to get on a live call because that’s not how I do things.” Could they do that and how would they do that? And can you map out what content assets or things you would need at each stage to be able to support that process and so you start to map that out and you go, “Okay, so here are what they’re going to need to, you know, content that answers these questions and content that shows these things and things that answer this and that.”

And often you’ll land at like, “I’ve got about 30% of the content I would need. The rest is things that typically happen in life conversations with sales reps.” And so you sort of challenge yourself to go, okay, it’s not that all my customers are going to go through a hundred percent self-serve buying process, but in the not too distant future, that might be happening more and more. And today, you’re going to find people who do want different aspects of this. So you need to be equipped to have as much of that covered as possible. And so, you start to think about, oh yeah, like little pieces of content that can explain this and answer this and explain this and often then you say, “Okay, well, what’s the best kind of content that would help answer that question or explain that?” Often the answer is the video because of all the value that the visuals and audible and things that come to fruition.

And so you start to map out and you go, “Wow! There are a lot of ways I could use video throughout this process.” And, you know, again, I could now totally see how somebody could watch 47 minutes worth of videos because even that and they still, there’s probably a lot more that, you know, you would need to if you wanted answer to everything that you needed to know. So then more and more, it’s definitely leaning that way. And people, you know, want as much of that online and on demand as they can.

Paula: That’s true. And maybe, you know, some of that is the first impressions, glossy, fabulous, produced Budweiser Clydesdales video, you know, and some of that is the running around with an iPhone explaining how something works kind of video. So, you know, I think having a nice mix is, form follows function as really where that comes from. Right?

Tyler: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And to your point earlier, as you kind of move through the, if you will, the kind of buying journey. You’re absolutely right that like content often make sense that content can and does get longer or you know more detailed and that’s a natural thing because it can very early on, somebody is not yet really invested, fully have him learning about what you do. So they’re only going to give you a certain amount of time out of their day to start to learn. And that’s where you need those smaller shorter pieces. But, you know, again to your point, if I really want to learn how this, you know, how this engine actually works, I’m willing to spend 15 minutes, watching a deep dive video to get all my questions answered. Especially if that means, I don’t have to do a one-hour live call with the salesperson to explain the same things that I could have just watched in the video. So, you know, more and more, we absolutely see that of like 10 to 15-minute video that’s a deep dive on something. Nothing wrong with that. Don’t expect that thousands of your prospects are going to watch it but those like 30 who you’re moving through the buying process and really need that information on a certain critical point, right? Those videos have a huge amount of value and kind of meet them where they are in terms of how they actually want to learn. Right?

John: This is sort of off the topic but it’s something that really hit me. I’ve got an older car and I was replacing one of the miniature computers that drives the compass and so forth and the overhead. At least that’s what I wanted to do, right? And she look up there and I’m going to take it around with just one screw, you take the screw out and nothing happens. And you can’t get this thing off. I found a video on YouTube. And a guy says, once you get the screw at, he put his flat-bladed screwdriver back there and you pull. He says, “When you keep pulling and you keep pulling and you keep pulling until you think it’s going to break and when it finally comes loose, it’s going to hit you in the face.” And I mean, there’s nowhere else that I found in any of the manuals, online, on paper, anywhere else that described this sequence of events and the guy is exactly perfectly on.

Tyler: Yeah, well, you get to the point about a video. If you had just read an article that said that, you would probably still be hesitant to do it like that. At least, I didn’t break that. It’s somebody in the video, you’re like. Okay. They just did it. I see how it happens. Right? That’s actually one of the little micro stories early on in the book.

Paula: Exactly. I was going to say.

Tyler: It was the jumper cable situation like they think I’m like, “Okay, it was in my younger days…”

Paula: I’m going to blow something up.

Tyler: You’re going to blow up, do you need something? Let’s watch a video. And sure enough, I’m like, “Okay, I know now like there’s no way, no question, I can see how it’s done, there’s no way I can screw this up now.” It makes so much sense but then you say like, the B2B world, there’s all these similar analogies, right? Like if I want to know how something in a product works or how you compare to a competitive product, right? It’s the very same thing. If there’s a video that clearly shows me and it goes like, hey look, here’s how we compare, here’s theirs, here’s ours. Look! Right, this thing does this, this does this way. You know why this is better, done, right? As opposed to just reading it in literature and going like, “Okay, you’re 40% more efficient like but really? Are you? What does that mean?”

John: What does that mean, right?

Paula: You’re not convinced.

Tyler: And you’re like, “Great. Watch this video.” And I’m like, “Oh yeah, I see it, right plain as a day.” Yeah, it’s a simple idea but we still gotta get over that hump of like how to make a video.

Paula: Right. Exactly. And that comes straight to your calls to action. What to demo, see for yourself, take a course, see it in action, you know. Those are so much more compelling. I think even to people, like John, you know, I always use John as our skeptical demographic because, you know, a lot of the people in the aviation industry, a lot of the purchasers are people who are male over 40, college-educated, former military, you know, all of those things that make them go, “Oh, video is fluffy or social media is fluffy or you know, all of those things.” But you know the fact that he had that experience with that car, you know, now he’s convinced. It’s really fun to listen to that story coming out of your mouth, John.

Tyler: Well, you know one of the real keys is you’re like in those environments is when you can, like you absolutely have to or you should adapt the style, the tone, even the cast in your videos to your audience. And so to your point, if I knew that that was sort of the typical makeup of people I was educating with these videos, I would really strive to like understand that when I create these videos. And you know that, okay, these people already think they know everything, right? So they’ve got no patience for fluff and whatnot. So, I’d be like, okay, when I’m planning out this video, we gotta get right into it. Like as soon as they click play, it’s like, I know why you’re here. This is what it’s all about. Let’s get into it. And you would have people that are very relatable to them that [crosstalk] being trustworthy but are very clear like hey it’s, you know, it’s Steven here. I’ve been in this industry for 40 years. I even remember when a, b, and c, let’s get into showing you how this compares to this. Right? Little things like that.

You can also use video to make the content hyper-relatable to people and try to match their tone, it’s hard because you can get over generalize and it’s like, well, not everybody’s like that but you can do neat things like that, which I’ve always appreciated too with video that we kind of take for granted of how it can be this medium. Unlike others to try to almost mirror your audience and even from at own personality perspective, which is really interesting.

Paula: Yeah, so you kind of want to strike a balance between looking like kids on TikTok, you know, which is one end of the spectrum versus the super produced corporate polished video. I think there’s a lot of middle ground there that a lot of the folks that listen to this podcast, you know, would probably be the most interested in is that middle section where you’re not fast-talking young folks, you know, but you’re also not doing the super, you know, in a suit and super polished. There’s a whole lot of middle ground. And one example is Turbines Ink, which is one of our clients, they have this cool video and is one of their most popular ones and it’s on balancing turbine blades, you know, and it’s like so neat but it’s fascinating to watch, you know, because they spin it and they watch and they have this little machine that does things, and it’s just really neat to see and it has a very specific audience but it’s not that polished and it’s just a guy working in their shop showing what he’s doing and talking about it and you know, it’s really a great video and I’d love to see more of that from our industry where it’s real people doing real things and showing what they do.

Tyler: Yeah. Well, I mean it’s a perfect kind of topic where you know it’s almost like seeing is believing or like you have to be able to show and tell aspect of it is a very natural thing because again, just to like write down or even take photos of like how that works, it doesn’t do it justice, right? Like you have to be able to see it and then visualize it and be a part of it. And there are so many things that we all sell in our businesses that that is true for. I just don’t think we often kind of force ourselves to think about that or really get creative with it. If you just step back and ask yourself like, again, the things that I marketing and selling, the messages I’m trying to deliver, you know, what are the different ones where seeing is believing or where showing is better than telling in terms of helping my audience understand what it is that we’re trying to message–

John: Uh-oh.

Paula: Uh-oh.

John: I think we lost Tyler.

Tyler: And you’ll often get a much bigger– Oops! I’m back.

John: Okay, good.

Tyler: I just got a, sorry, connection unstable, apparently I’m unstable over here. But yeah, we’re just saying of like all those little things you could think about in your product or service where it could be better shown than just told or where seeing is believing. And if you force yourself, just ask that question and you come up with often a lot longer list than you expect of, oh yeah, this would be better showing than just told and this would be and they’re like, oh my gosh, I’ve got 30 things here of like ideas or topics or questions that I could probably better answer in a video and that often is a great place to start. You go like, okay, like I’ve got my to-do list for the kinds of videos I might make and those are things as marketers we can use. But they’re also things that your sales people will love because they’re probably the same questions they get asked all the time. It’s one of the things I love Marcus talks a lot about in the book is like starting with that. Like what are the most common questions the [crosstalk] specs[?] are asking you? Yeah. And like, that’s an easy place to start. Like if you can make simple videos that answer and explain and show those, those are really hero pieces because you can use them in marketing, but no question, your sales team will hit huge value in being able to send them to prospects to help educate them.

Paula: Right. I really love the chapter about the 80% video, which is exactly what you’re talking about. Where you just come up with, this is 80% of the questions that people ask us and we know what they are. So that is our list of videos, you shoot them all in one afternoon, you know. I mean, you seriously could do that and then produce them each a separate videos with the question as the title, you know, and then you’ve got this great search engine material. You’ve got a thousand benefits from this because you’ve got these individual videos and then you can put them all together into a single video and send that to your, have your salespeople use that before a consultation. Say, you know, I like you to watch this video before our consultations will probably answer most of your questions but then we can dive into what specific about your situation and we can spend that time more effectively and save your time and save our time.

Tyler: Yeah.

Paula: Yeah. No, I love it.

Tyler: I love it too. And to your point doing it in a way that’s like first, it’s modular. And then you can start to use those different answers to key questions in different ways and package them together or you can make them a little library that your sales reps can always go, “Oh, yup. I know you’ve got these three questions. Here’s a link to three different videos that answer those.” Yeah, it’s a really simple thing to do, and part of the power as well in doing them as shorter modular ones is we all know that sometimes the answers to those questions change because product updates or different things happen in the market. And so when you do them as a series of short videos, you don’t have to recreate the whole ten-minute video. You just go, “Oh, this one question. We have to update the answer. Let’s just record a new answer to that one and make it available.” So yeah, lots of ways, as you get into it, you start to feel this more natural rhythm for like how you do it and how you do it in a way that also becomes efficient over time because that can be a challenge for people finding that video feels inefficient or a little cumbersome. But you learn as you go and you learn some of these little hacks.

Paula: Right. Muhammad, I don’t know if you’ve got stable audio or if you want to jump in. I just want to make sure we’re not talking over you or…

John: He’s Frozen.

Muhammad Ali: My internet connection is also very disturbing because we have three monsoon seasons in Pakistan and the disturbing weather here along with the electricity and the internet connection problems as well. So, we’re suffering sometimes, sometimes [inaudible], but sometimes it’s buffering.

Paula: Fun. Well, if you’ve got any questions you like to throw in, we need space for that.

Muhammad: Yes, I would like to ask Tyler that, how do we convince our clients to come up on their visual[?] sites rather than on the content side because recently, I have been doing a project with a client in the crypto side. He started to asked us to produce some visuals on the video side, but when we produce and give some results after you can say, 10 to 15 days[?], she just said that, okay, go back to the content side. Materials[?] are not making so much, you can see growth on my page and it’s not responsive as well.

Tyler: Yeah, so one of the questions and challenges, you’re absolutely right, can be, okay, we make some videos and then we put them out there and then we decide, I’m not sure about the ROI here. Yeah, We’re not sure that they’re working as well or maybe even like on a web page, if you have too many videos, it can make it you know, slow down web pages, things like that. There are a couple of things I’d encourage you and others to think about, one of them is ensuring that you leverage those video assets in, I guess, as many different ways as possible to get as much value right? We will often find people who will make that video and it becomes a part of this sort of one page or campaign over here and that’s it. Meanwhile, it’s an asset that the sales team could actually get a lot of value out of depending on what it is, right? But it could be something that leveraging it as part of the sales team, it could be something that could work well as part of a nurture campaign to your existing base, there’s often ways to reuse. Do they have a YouTube channel? Was that something that would make sense as part of, you know, other third-party channels like YouTube or using on social media. So those can all be ways to ensure that no matter what you’re making, you always want to think about how do I maximize the value out of it and maximize the surface area of how it’s going to get consumed.

The second thing is really being clear from the outset on what are the goals of this video? And how are we going to measure success of that? And then do we have– Oh, I think I’m unstable again.

Paula: I think you’re okay.

Tyler: Okay, I’m back.

Paula: Yeah, you’re back. Okay.

Muhammad: [inaudible]

Tyler: Yeah, so I was going to say, based on the goals, do we have the ability to track and report against those? And sometimes even that being clear on that upfront is, you know, will change a lot of things because again what, you know, the client might say, “Oh, well, success for this video is getting a lot of views.” And then actually, your job as a smart marketer is to say, well, but really, what are we trying to accomplish here? Is it views, or are we trying to help generate some more leads or are we trying, you know, what are we really trying to accomplish here is engagement in the content. Is it if we only get 50 people to watch but they all watch for three minutes, is that important? Is this something? So then you have to say, “Okay, based on what we’re trying to accomplish with it, do we have the tech to be able to ensure we can track that and measure it and use it.” So again, one of the reasons I don’t want to be here to promote Vidyard by any means but one of the reasons companies end up choosing a tool like Vidyard to host and manage their videos is because it will do a lot more than a YouTube with respect to tracking certain analytics. Right? And being able to even tie that back if they’re using like a hub spot or salesforce or other tools for marketing automation, be able to help identify who actually watch that video. You know, how long did they engage with it? And then downstream, you can actually start to report on it and say, oh, yeah, it only got 200 views. But it actually influence these three deals that all ended up converting downstream because you know that people at this account, this account and this account actually watch the full video.

So that’s often a missing piece for people because they say, videos equals views, that’s my measure of success. And if it doesn’t get enough views, I’m going to stop doing it because they also don’t have the tools to measure anything else. So it’s tough because you know, sometimes that does require new investments in technology. But that’s how I would typically approach it.

Paula: Right. And I think…

Muhammad: I have [inaudible] consists subversion[?] of this question, is that do we need to include some, you can say, intro message, very attractive. They are all first five seconds or 10 seconds message are very attractive to the audience so that they can, you can say, end up with the whole video of five minutes or ten minutes just like in the content side. What we used to do is to give a big captions that people get a text from that and read out the whole version of the captions and the content side. Is it more likely do the same thing or we have to be fancy[?], use some different, you can say tactics on that video side.

Tyler: That’s a tough one. Yeah, I don’t know, I don’t have it. I’m not sure I’ve got a great answer for that one.

Paula: If I understood the question right, and you know, from what I’ve gotten from the the book, I think it’s always a great idea to have a really good hook or promise in the first 15 seconds of video. And then if you need to go longer, you know, to fully answer the question, five minutes, eight minutes, whatever it takes, you earn their attention for that length of time by promising–

Muhammad: Exactly what I’m trying to ask.

Paula: Does that sound great? Okay.

Tyler: I think you’re right. [crosstalk] Let’s just go back to great[?] like sort of what I was alluding to earlier is the power of really good storytellers and content creators, right?

Muhammad: Exactly.

Tyler: Yeah. So there’s definitely that aspect of, okay. We’ve got to figure out a way from a video perspective because it’s not as skimmable as text. And again, the expectations are a little bit different, so there is very much, we have to think creatively about how do we hook their attention and how do we create a curiosity gap is a concept that I’m a big fan of. With any content that you create. But how do you create that curiosity to make it almost difficult for them to stop watching right? Early on, you either…

Muhammad: Yeah.

Tyler: Yeah. So you either like hit them with a really strong value point right off the bat that makes them go, “Oh, okay, I’ve got to learn more because that first bit was really interesting.” Or you’re hitting them with like a really interesting question that is hard for them to not get answered, right? And so there’s almost a bit of that click baiting that goes into the content and you know, if you do it right, you bring them in, a big part then though is even throughout the rest of the content. With video, it’s so important to find ways to keep the momentum, especially for a longer form content. And again, if you’ve got like a five-minute video that’s got a lot of really great information, but if it’s just a shot, you know, headshot, somebody talking and talking head for five minutes, people will naturally dripped, right? So even doing things like the simplest things you can do with that are well, when you are interviewing that person, get two camera angles so at least you can do some like cuts. You can like add in a little bit of visual interest as it’s going and bring it back. And find a way, maybe even add a little bit of music behind it if it’s a little bit longer if that helps with kind of the pacing.

Also, don’t be shy to do things like hard cuts where if somebody’s talking and, you know, they explain a point for three minutes kind of like I’m doing right now and it probably could have been cut down to like one minute, you know, you’ll often find a way, you’ll be like, I can’t, I don’t know. There’s no harm in going like hard cut here, hard cut here, mash them together and like, yeah, in the video I’m here, and then all of a sudden, I teleported to here. [inaudible] anymore.

Paula: No, they don’t.

Tyler: As long as that narrative flows, yeah.

Paula: Absolutely true.

John: In the sales vernacular, you got 7 to 12 seconds to sell the next 7 to 12 seconds.

Paula: Yeah, exactly.

Tyler: Yes. Yeah.

Muhammad: Exactly. Very true.

Paula: I can’t let you go without asking you this because this is the biggest problem that I have with my ads[?] getting them on video and that is, when we have people come to do video, or whatever they’re doing, sometimes we have to go out for drinks or something because [inaudible] not feeling it, you know? I mean, they’re just so self-conscious, any advice for that? I know there’s some in the book, but I just wanted to hear it from you. If you’ve got any fabulous advice for dealing with clients who are petrified.

Tyler: Yeah, I mean my favorite tip, which I think is pretty common for producers who actually know what they’re doing behind the camera is to start with a conversation and get them talking about themselves. Because most people are comfortable talking about themselves. They may not feel as comfortable or confident talking about other topics, but if you can like, you know, quietly hit record on the camera, right? Like, you don’t have to say, “Okay, we’re filming now.” Right? Like just have the camera running. And if I were here and John was my victim, and John’s looking a little nervous and not, you know, not so into it, I’d be like, “Hey, John. So, you know what? You actually never told me. Where are you from John? Where are you from originally?”

John: I know. I do the same sort of thing when people ask me to take pictures. I never tell him I’m going to take a picture. I do take a picture since I start, they gave me the camera.

Paula: Before you start taking pictures, right?

Tyler: Yeah, and so I’ve just spent five minutes, John says, “Oh, I’m actually from Baltimore.” And I’m like, “Oh my goodness, do you remember the Blue Jays Orioles series from five years ago?” This happened and he’s like, “Oh my goodness. No, I hate baseball.” And you’re like, “Oh, that’s okay. You know what?” And then you know and now they’re talking, you know, they’re getting a little bit more comfortable because it’s a natural conversation. And then you can start to slowly dovetail into what they’re really here to talk about. But now, it at least starts to get them a little bit more comfortable and can relax the nerves a little bit. And so I think it’s an easy little tip that you can use that will work wonders with a lot of people. You know, sometimes as soon as they start talking, they freeze back up. That’s also why I bring a Nerf gun too with me so I can do a little, you know, Nerf gun to the leg and then [inaudible] “Hey, what are you doing?” And you’re like, “I don’t know.”

Paula: [Laughs] I love that.

Tyler: Try to have a little bit of fun or maybe let them shoot you, give them the Nerf gun and say, “Okay, you get two shots at me.” Anyway, any little things like that that can just get them talking casually, smiling, having a little bit of fun. Those things make such a difference to when they start talking to the camera, hit[?] their body, their posture, their tone, all of those things really help, so find ways to get him smiling and talking.

Paula: Yeah. What do they call that? Rule number six, stop taking yourself so gosh-darn seriously.

Tyler: That’s right. Yeah.

Paula: Fantastic. Well, I think we’ll wrap there unless there’s anything else you’d like to add, you know, of course, we can do a little pitch at the end and an intro for, you know, let us know who you are, where they can find you and everything else. I’ll go first, I’m Paula Williams, ABCI. We helped aviation companies sell more of their products and services and you can find us on YouTube as well as the web and every other social media in existence as far as I know.

John: And I’m John Williams, and I work for her. I do the tech and back in stuff and play CFO and so forth. And help out where I can.

Tyler: Perfect. I’m Tyler Lessard. I am the co-author of the Visual Sale, VP of marketing, and chief video strategist at Vidyard and I live and breathe with the use of video in modern marketing and sales.

John: The man[?].

Muhammad: My name is Ali. I’m from Pakistan. I work for ABCI as a graphic designer and social media manager. And you can find me with ABCI always[?]. Thank you so much.

Paula: Thanks, everyone. Thanks very much for joining us. I’m really happy that you were able to make it and I love the book. I think if you haven’t read it yet, highly recommended like I was saying, I think if the top of the hour, one of the top five this year, for sure. And The Jury[?] is still out, [laugh] that falls in that top five, right?

John: Well, everybody, stay safe and happy and we’ll talk to most of you next time.

Paula: Absolutely. Have a great afternoon.

[END]